Heliocentric Astrology

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Sun sculpture in marbble wall

Hasan “Sonsuz” Çeliktaş
Dear Öner, I know you work on heliocentric astrology and deal with the collective side of astrology rather than making forecasts based on star signs. So, could you explain to us the difference between heliocentric astrology and geocentric astrology?

Öner Döşer
In heliocentric astrology, the Sun is surrounded by the planets.  In other words, the Sun is at the center. In geocentric astrology, on the other hand, we observe the planets from the Earth. Humanity experienced a great jump following the Copernican Revolution of the heliocentric system, yet astrologers continued working on geocentric charts. Scientists, astrophysicists, and astronomers ask why astrologers still use the geocentric system, and the astrologers give the answer, “We are living on Earth and observe the cosmos from here. Because we are in the center of this view, we use geocentric astrology.”  The scientists then counter with, “But the Sun does not orbit around the Earth.” This is right. The Earth rotates around the Sun, but when we observe the Sun from our point on Earth, we see the Sun orbiting around us. Don’t we?

In the morning, we say the Sun has risen, and we say the Sun has gone down in the evening. We act as if it is orbiting around us… Of course, we all know this is not the case. The Earth rotates on its axis and orbits the Sun—these are the two movements of the Earth. We see how astrologers used the knowledge that came from the ancients, and they reached a turning point after the revelation of Copernicus. Another point to be addressed is the differences in the coordinate system of the ecliptic, so when astrologers say the Sun is in Sagittarius, astronomers may reject this by saying the Sun is actually passing through Scorpio, not Sagittarius, as the astronomers observe the constellations. Many people therefore claim new concepts, such as a 13th sign.

By the way, let’s remember something. There are not 13 signs, but there are 13 constellations on the ecliptic plane. However these signs are not equal to the constellations, because those 13 constellations have been combined into 12 signs. The astronomers may therefore argue with the astrologers, and some misunderstandings may surface.

An astronomer determines the position of a planet based on its place in front of a constellation, whereas an astrologer determines a planet’s position on the ecliptic. Therefore, an astrologer takes the signs as a reference rather than the constellations. The signs are designed in slices of 30 degrees. I say “designed” here because the constellations in the sky are not equally spread. However, the signs are designed by dividing 360° into 12 30° slices on an imaginary Zodiac belt. The target is to determine the geometric distances between the planets. What we do is to determine the quality of the places (which we call signs) that the planets pass through  and observe the results that the planets bring while touring through specific signs.

Heliocentric astrology, as advised by the well-known American astrologer Robert Hand, is used for predicting mundane events—it is related to the collective rather than individuals. However, this branch of astrology is not known in Turkey. In this branch of astrology, we do not take the houses and the signs into consideration. We only consider the planetary alignments based on the Sun and the aspects between them. We then finally study the similarities between these positions and mundane events like natural disasters, political turmoil, and economic changes. All economic, social and cultural movements are predicted through the use of heliocentric astrology, giving a different perspective to geocentric astrology methods.

Aycan Aşkım Saroğlu
So, you observe mundane events by using geocentric astrology, and when you then look at the heliocentric method, do these two always support each other or do they sometimes contradict each other? How do you make predictions? Do you take an average of the two?

Öner Döşer
Geocentric astrology gives us a perspective in individual matters like love, relationships, and money. These are important in our daily lives because they are based on the psychological meanings of the signs. However, heliocentric astrology does not deal with daily events; it rather deals with collective ones.

Aycan Aşkım Saroğlu
So, you mean you predict events like economic crises by using heliocentric astrology?

Öner Döşer
Of course, we can make assumptions through geocentric astrology, and this has been the general practice for many years. However, we can also make assumptions through heliocentric astrology. The main difference is that we have the Earth rather than the Sun in heliocentric charts, because we observe the sky from the Sun. Conversely, geocentric charts use the Sun rather than the Earth. Heavy planets like Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, and even Jupiter and Saturn are relatively slow and do not show big differences with respect to the Sun’s position. However, the faster-moving inner planets (e.g., Mercury and Venus) do show substantial differences. As a rule of thumb in geocentric astrology, Mercury and Venus cannot get away from the Earth beyond a certain degree. Mercury may only get 28 degrees away from the Earth, which makes one sign difference. Similarly, Venus may only get 48 degrees away, which is one and a half signs from the Earth. Conversely, Mercury and Venus may stand in opposition with the Earth within the heliocentric perspective. This tells us that we have certain limitations within the geocentric view, but when we observe from the Sun, these limitations disappear. The word “Sun” matches with the word “Soul,” so some foreign astrologers use soul-centered astrology as the name for heliocentric astrology. It tells us about our spiritual aims before the existence of earthly limitations.

I study this branch of astrology nowadays. I had some lectures on this issue in 2010 and 2011, and I also studied heliocentric astrology on an individual level. I then went on to working on mundane events. Do you know why?

Aycan Aşkım Saroğlu
Is it because when we consider we are time travelers within the cosmos, geocentric astrology tells us the story of the Earth?

Öner Döşer
Yes, it tells us the story of the Earth, but heliocentric astrology gives us freedom. It removes the limitations because more aspects are possible. For example, the Earth may be in opposition with Venus, something which is impossible within the geocentric view.

Aycan Aşkım Saroğlu
Does it tell us the maximum potential we may reach?

Öner Döşer
That’s right. I tried to convey this in my book Maximum. John Nelson, a radio technician, wrote a book named Cosmic Patterns. John Nelson received some complaints while he was working at RCA in America during the 1940s. The complaints involved distortions and interferences in shortwave broadcasts, and people were asking the reasons. John Nelson worked on the issue and came to a conclusion: The squares, oppositions, and conjunctions of the planets in the heliocentric view caused radio interference! He also concluded that the 60° and 120° aspects between the planets permitted a perfect radio broadcast. The astrologers then staked claims on these findings, because it was already known that the 60° and 120° aspects were positive and harmonious, whereas the 90° and 180° aspects bring problems, difficulties, and restrictions. Just like the interference in the radio signals, our lives are also interfered with; we experience interference related to economic, relationship, and health issues.  So, I also read John Nelson’s findings and saw he gives some interesting information based on diagrams that astrologers also use. These diagrams are not astrological charts, but they are somewhat similar. He claims these planetary alignments may also affect the magnetic field of the Earth. We already know that the Earth’s magnetic field is affected by the Sun.

Aycan Aşkım Saroğlu
And this is a scientific evidence of astrology.

Öner Döşer
Exactly. It is also stated in the book The Scientific Basis of Astrology. When Dr. Percy Seymour first published this book, he received some criticism from his colleagues. He says it’s normal to receive criticism, because everyone may not accept each other’s theories, but the volume of the criticism was greater than he expected. He was shocked to see so many opponents of astrology. He then republished the book with the new name Scientific Proof of Astrology but with the same content.

Aycan Aşkım Saroğlu
So, you mean to say the planetary aspects influence the Earth and its magnetic field.

Öner Döşer
They also influence our magnetic fields. When the Earth is influenced, we are also influenced. John Nelson predicted geomagnetic storms with 85% accuracy, far better than the efforts of the scientists of those times. Later, some scientists and astrologers used John Nelson’s method to predict economic changes.

Hasan “Sonsuz” Çeliktaş
It is something like “tuning into the music of the planets,” as is written on the cover of The Scientific Basis of Astrology. Last week, I had a problem with my voice, so I asked my musician friend Ayfer Sak how I could talk with such a voice. She told me, “Opera singers never listen to high-pitched music.” When I asked the reason for this, she said our vocal cords imitate the sounds around us, even when we do not talk. If there is a music or sound around us, our vocal cords vibrate similarly. So, we could think that the planets have special frequencies or energy that can be transformed into music. The music of the planets would then vibrate our spirit as well as our vocal cords. The frequencies, the music of the planets, influence us.

Aycan Aşkım Saroğlu
As was said, “As above, so below.”

Öner Döşer
Everything is related with each other. Quantum Physics also conveys the same thing. We interact and synchronize with everything, independent of the time. This is what we call the Butterfly Effect.

Hasan “Sonsuz” Çeliktaş
Now, at the end of this interview, I’ll admit I believe we should learn about astrology through astrologers who keep their feet on the ground. An astrologer friend once told me, “Astrology is like meteorology, which tells us about potential weather. Astrology gives us a daily energy report. Meteorology also gives us the potential weather, but it’s not 100% accurate. It may or may not rain, but you can still take your umbrella with you.”  I liked that explanation. We will continue this interview in the forthcoming issues.

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