How do our minds operate? How does it work? And what about our consciousness that creates our reality. Lets discuss this questions with The Wise Writer Resat Guner.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
Reşat, I’d like to talk about consciousness and beyond our time, because if we want to escape a system, we first need to discover how it works. We can then realize what it does to us and find the way out. Let’s start with how the mind works. For example, we all talk about the ego. It’s some sort of program, but what does it do? What’s it for?

Resat Guner:
There have been efforts to understand human consciousness and the human mind. In the1960s, when modern computers were invented and developed, they were inspired by the operational principals of the human mind. They tried to model the human mind and the way it operates.

We live in a fortunate era in that sense. We’re so lucky that we have the chance to examine everything in every field. This simply was not possible before, by which I mean in the previous eras of humanity. It’s related to how communication peaked thanks to the Internet. Nowadays, we can bring all the cultures of the world together, as well as be examined ourselves. Naturally, there is a wide range of collected work on this subject, both old and new, but the Indian civilization worked especially on human consciousness and human existence. Moreover, I always mention during my conferences how there are special words in Sanskrit to define situations of the consciousness, and these don’t exist in any western language or our own Turkish language. At least we now have the opportunity to examine what the Eastern languages say about the structure of the human consciousness.

In addition, there are very good modern studies into the human brain and the principals of how it operates. We can lay all of these on the table and examine them collectively. This is my broader “curiosity.” I wonder, because almost 10 years ago, I figured out that this is the key point. By this, I mean that I figured out the importance of understanding the principles of the human mind’s workings, getting to know human consciousness up close and its various states. Extraordinary states and altered states of consciousness are extremely important. Everything depends on them, such as the development of our civilization, the improvement of science, understanding certain things better now, understanding the structure of truth, understanding the structure of evolution better… All of these pass through the operation of our mind, so the better we understand it and use it, the better we understand the structure of truth and can discover certain things.

We always impose a distinct identity on science by saying, “Science says this; science says that,” but this is actually a distortion. When we say things like this, we assign an identity to science. But is there a person called Science? There’s not. So, what is science? Science is what the human mind, the human comprehension, discovers about what already exists in the universe within the limits of human imagination and where it has reached so far. By this, I mean where the human mind has reached. What we call science is therefore the level of intelligence that today’s scientists have reached. Science is no more than the operation of our consciousness.
Reality and the universe is something we are born into, something we are a product of. We are its children. Essentially, the mind of the universe is what generates us. When we look at development throughout history, we see how the only thing that changes is the human consciousness. As that understanding improves, other things change, and we begin to comprehend certain things better. When I realized this, it became a priority. I said to myself, “I need to understand this better!” What’s more, in order to understand it, I should practice as well. Well, that’s how I actually got involved with the therapy and other stuff. I consequently understand the human consciousness better, and I see how it’s a deep well indeed. I still haven’t figured it out completely, and I’m still working on it.
There are so many things to understand about this subject, but there are several films on the topic. You watch them too and share your opinions with your followers. For example, what about The Matrix and Inception. Even earlier, there was a film called Existence. And there have been many, many more.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
Do you remember a film called Altered States back in the 1980s.

Resat Guner:
I didn’t see it, no. Lately, there have been many films like The Matrix. Even Avatar used the same theme. These are naturally very inspiring works. There’s enormous inspiration behind The Matrix, and it’s clear they did their homework about various philosophies. The dialogues were evident, but it shows us a great model. It actually says that it’s all in our mind. In our reality, everything happens in our mind, because this is how we communicate with the world. At present, we have no other tool than our senses.

We talk about thoughts. When we say thoughts, though, it’s actually a vague notion. The components of what we call thoughts depend entirely on emotions. There has to be an image, some words, or mathematical notions or symbols (which we express as sounds), and this means speaking. Other than that, we have feelings and emotions. Feelings are what the body comprehends, senses inside the body. Emotions are a step ahead and work at a higher level. We feel most feelings in our guts. Our guts actually have an incredible nervous system. Its complexity is equal to that of a cat’s brain. We feel many emotions in the gut, stomach, and heart. There’s a substantial nervous system in our hearts as well, and recent research into the heart by the HeartMath Institute has understood it as a second brain. The heartbeat really varies according to emotions, so it is a system of emotions. In our reality, however, when we say thoughts, there are either visions, sounds, symbols, or feelings in our inner world. Nothing exists other than these. You cannot find anything else.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
I’d like to inject something at this point. The brain comprehends the outer world through the senses. It comprehends as much as it can, and it creates a new world for itself, so the world is not the same for all of us?

Resat Guner:
Absolutely. I don’t know how they measured it, but psychological studies indicate that only 20 % of an adult’s (over 25) emotions depend on senses. The remaining 80% are shaped by memories, expectations, and prejudices. Well, we naturally attribute meaning to everything in the light of our past experiences.

Our senses are limited—we know this. It’s good that it is, because this brain, this consciousness, could not handle more. If the electromagnetic spectrum were 10 inches long, we would only see a single inch of it. There are also numerous sound frequencies, but we can maybe hear between 20 – 20.000 Hz, and it’s rare to even hear that. Our sense of touch is also limited to certain stimuli. Our senses of smell and taste are also limited when compared to some animals with much more developed senses. This limits our comprehension, so as we age and accumulate, we shape reality according to our expectations. We don’t see anything, but we are not aware of it either. We lose our awareness among constantly repeating situations.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
Well, they say if you marry the most beautiful woman in the world, you stop seeing her beauty after living together for long enough…

Resat Guner:
Exactly, but there’s something else I’d like to point out. As you said, there are signals that reach our brains through our senses, but inside the brain, there is no sound, light, or feelings. What reaches the brain is actually electrical signals. Moreover, as we all know, the images reflected on our cornea are upside down, and the brain corrects it. I don’t know if you’ve tried it, but if you wear special eyeglasses that invert your vision, the brain corrects it after a while and you start to see normally. When you take off the eyeglasses, you see the world upside down again.

As memories accumulate, the brain intervenes in two ways. It either erases certain things or collates them. This is what we come across during deep hypnosis and positive/negative hallucinations. By positive and negative, I don’t mean good or bad. Negative hallucination is not perceiving something that is visible. When people can go into deep hallucination (only 3% or so of the population can), you can completely erase something. We sometimes try this with our recipient friends.

Ten of us sit down and put the recipient into a trance. We then say, “You won’t see X, Y or Z for a short while!” After they open their eyes, we ask them to tell us who’s in the room. They give us names, but not for the people they were told not to see, because they don’t exist for them at that moment…

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
The brain fills the void like a Photoshop edit. They say that the Native Americans could not see Christopher Columbus’s ships at first, because their brains refused to and filled the void instead.

Resat Guner:
Yes, that’s what we call negative hallucination. They didn’t believe such a thing could exist on the sea, and the brain doesn’t see what it does not believe.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
We see this a lot with men. For example, my wife calls out, “Hasan! Bring me such and such.” I search all over, but I can’t find it. She then comes in and picks it up from under my nose and gets mad at me. She then says, “Damn you, Hasan. Can’t you see what’s right in front of you!” This is a very simple example, but really, men don’t see things. My brain doesn’t really notice what’s in front of me.

Resat Guner:
Yes, that’s again a negative hallucination. You don’t need to go into deep hypnosis for it, because we do it often. Positive hallucination, in contrast, is seeing what does not exist. For example, a person in a trance might talk to a friend who’s not present. He or she might see furniture or walls that do not exist. You’ve seen how stage performers hypnotize people. It’s a real and natural thing. The real skill of stage performers is in identifying recipient people very quickly. They find them and can immediately make them do anything.

The use of hypnosis in therapy is different, but to understand the principles of how the mind works, hypnotic and trancelike phenomena light our way. We may not see things that really exist while seeing things that do not exist. We already experience this in our daily lives. Consider the people who worry too much: They can write endless scenarios. But people who can do this in a positive way become geniuses. For example, composers literally create hallucinations. They create music in their heads. Is this not a hallucination? What about an artist’s painting or a director’s movie.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
It’s positive hallucination.

Resat Guner:
Yes, it’s positive hallucination. That’s the basis of art. Some artists cross a limit and begin to move into schizophrenia. So, what’s happening with schizophrenics? They see certain things that do not exist here, and their imagination is very strong. Generally, they are very clever people, but they can’t separate dreams from reality.

We usually have a strategy for reality in our brains, so we can separate imagination from reality. When we imagine something in our head, we know it’s not real. When we dream in our sleep, however, we lose track of reality, so our dreams become real for us. Still, is it not the mind producing it, the brain itself? Actually, the brain is at the fringe here. Dreaming actually happens in the consciousness itself, and the brain, particularly the extension of the cerebellum, is like a receiver…

What I’m trying to say is that we work on spirituality, but it’s impossible for us to directly comprehend anything spiritual. On a subliminal level, we receive many spiritual impressions, because we as beings are not fully captured in the body. Our consciousness is not limited to our body, like being trapped in a bottle. We also exist in several dimensions at the same time. Let’s say there’s a world beyond, and we are already there. This part of us will continue after we are dead. On the one hand, activity continues at a subliminal level. We receive all kinds of impressions, but it just doesn’t get comprehended by the brain. Anything that reflects on the brain but doesn’t create a feeling—whether it be an image, sound, vision, or impression—cannot exist in our reality. So, let’s look at comprehension beyond senses, which we call the sixth sense. In people with such gifts, the brain and the nervous system are the recipient. We all have this to varying extents, because as beings, we all perceive beyond our senses. Some areas are beyond our senses, but we all get their vibrations and frequencies. We receive all types of information on a subliminal level, but our consciousness normally focuses on daily life. This may then later come out while dreaming. For example, this explains why people see future events in their dreams or perceive an incident happening elsewhere. People with abilities beyond their senses can easily transform vibrations they receive into visual images or an auditory feeling (what we call intuition), because their brains and nervous systems are recipients.

I mean, you can say this or that happened, but you may not comprehend an image. A person who perceives images should already be a visual person, and not all of us are. Those with such strong visual sight are psychics. I can’t do it. I’m more inclined toward music, so my hearing is very strong. Words are the least related to spirituality. It’s the images and feelings that are mostly related with the subliminal. People who perceive beyond their senses therefore generally comprehend images or feelings better.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
May I quickly summarize what I’ve understood so far? I point this out during my speeches as well. I’ve always tried to explain how we keep searching for the soul. Where’s this thing we call a soul? We always look for it inside the body. We look at the heart, the stomach, or even the nose 🙂 Here, there, everywhere. How much does it weigh? We all assume that our souls are housed in our bodies. Yet we are in the soul, not the other way around. The soul is not inside us. Reşat’s soul, Ahmet’s soul, Duygu’s soul—there are no such things. If we assume the soul is in the body, that’s when segregation begins. Everyone thinks that they’re separate from it. No! We are in the soul. This is the main thing I understand from what you’ve been talking about. Another thing is that as we sit here now, there’s a broadcast passing over us. For example, you have satellite transmissions, HD television broadcasts, and mobile phone signals. If I don’t have a satellite dish and receiver but only a terrestrial antenna, I can only get the basic, low-definition TV channels. If I had a satellite receiver, I would get a greater choice of channels, but if I had an HD receiver, I would get the best quality broadcast. I think people who can comprehend beyond their senses and connect to souls experience a similar situation. Everybody has a different capacity for comprehension. Everybody’s soul perceives, but our brains work just like the different sorts of TV receivers. Some can only receive certain signals. That’s how I understand it.

Resat Guner:
Absolutely right. I’d like to go into more detail. Some of the things we refer to as the highest level of spirituality, such as comprehension and intuition, mean nothing to us if they’re not translated into something that can be perceived by the brain. Ruhselman’s book In The Divine Order and The Universe presents a great model: It places the soul slightly out of the picture, because it is not something we can ever comprehend or understand. However, there’s a notion of “Being.” This is what we previously called the soul. Being is a rather subtle material structure. It’s so thin that we cannot perceive it through our senses. In conclusion, that’s what we call the Being. It is what incarnates the body and communicates with it. Even those at the highest level of comprehension are still material. There are people who rise up to very high levels, such as meditative levels. Nothing exists after a certain point.

You know a condition called Shamani? I actually don’t like using Sanskrit words very much, but this is a state of consciousness above duality. There is no form up there. Nothing’s left. Among other forms of consciousness, a counterpart could be deep sleep, but there are no dreams there. There’s nothing at that level. At that level, there is nothing the brain can perceive. It’s what we call astral scenes and spiritual comprehension or what people with near-death experiences go through. This is where people near death leave their body and have certain outer-body experiences, but they obviously come back and talk about  the memories that linger in their brains. They often say things like, “There are no words to define it. I cannot explain what I experienced. There’s no such color.”
In order to define anything, there should be an image in the brain, or feelings or words should be formed in the mind to turn it into a notion. We have no chance of understanding anything otherwise. This means that the senses work externally. The sense organs receive signals from the external world, but the same applies inside as well. This is what we call having an insight. We visually imagine, hear a voice in the mind, and talk to ourselves inside, right? We constantly talk to ourselves in our heads. What’s this auditory imagination in our minds? We always regard imagination as something visual, but no, you can imagine sounds too. You can play music in your head, hear voices, and have imagined conservations. We have feelings on top of these, and these are the main components of the cognitive mind.

Every thought and every vision passing through the mind is connected to certain feelings. They all have feelings, but how is that possible? They’re programmed into our minds over a very long period. The kinesthetic cortex in our brain—the cortex related to senses, emotions, and feelings—has a strong connection to the auditory and visual cortex. Everything we hear and see makes us feel something. It’s the feeling of living. The whole mechanism revolves around this. And what do we do? We look for ways to feel good, but we’ve already imposed several meanings on the things we see and hear, and we feel emotions according to these meanings, both positively and negatively. We are actually the ones creating emotions. Emotions are the thing that belongs to us most. Images and voices may come from outside, but emotions come entirely from within ourselves. We create them.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
I’m reading Eckhart Tolle’s book A New Earth. He talks specifically about emotions and thoughts and their negative impacts. I’d like to point out two things here: First, you gave a great example about spiritual growth that enlightened me. Spiritual growth doesn’t mean improving the soul! The soul is already perfect. We only improve our brains and nervous systems. All the practices we follow are related to this.

Next, you just mentioned some people who get nowhere regardless of the level they are at. An old mentor told me a story one day. She had been in such a meditative state that he was talking to the energy that entered his body.

The energy asked him, “Where am I?”

My mentor replied, “You are matter.”

To which the energy responded by asking, “What is matter?”

She defined this as the eternal energy beyond eternity. She said there’s a dimension where matter doesn’t even know it exists. We’ll return to emotions, but I want to go back to the example of spiritual growth. When we say spiritual growth, we think of improving the soul, but we merely increase the capability of our receiver.

Resat Guner:
Exactly, because subjectively, without exception, everything we experience inside has a counterpart in our brains and nervous systems. If there’s no activity in the brain and nervous system, there is no perception. With every perception, there’s a stimulation, some kind of ignition in the brain and the nervous system, because otherwise it doesn’t exist. There have been some very revealing experiments in this area. For example, researchers exposed a woman to 113 ºF water. At this temperature, the water does not scold, but it stings a little. It gives the feeling of burning. During the experiment, the woman’s brain was hooked up to a device that showed on screen which part of the brain was being activated. The moment they placed her hand in the water, they saw stimulation in the corresponding part of the brain. They then gave her a local anesthetic, so she wouldn’t feel her hand anymore. On putting her hand into the water, there was no feeling and thus no stimulation!

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
We all are machines, actually. We’ve literally been talking about engineering

Resat Guner:
The body is indeed an advanced product of engineering. As I just mentioned, everything we perceive subjectively definitely has a counterpart in the brain or nervous system. As brain scanning techniques have developed, there has been research into meditation in recent years. For example, researchers gathered monks who had been meditating in a certain way for the previous 40 years. This was even supported by the Dalai Lama. They found that the monks’ brains worked differently, and parts that were not active in average people were active in the monks. For example, when people solve a mathematical problem, their brains usually work in a certain way, but these monks used a different style. They could lower their wavelength and control it. We described it with phrases like knowing yourself, therapy work, subconscious  cleansing, and so on. We sit and meditate or perform some mental exercise. This ultimately results in certain changes in the structure of hormones, so you change yourself. You can then represent the energy of your being more. Only once this change takes place can you reflect more. Everybody has an enormous potential in their being. What we actually accomplish with these practices is to train the brain and the nervous system. In our culture, this is called self-control.

You manage emotions. We already mentioned how emotions are related to the nervous system. Now, let’s say you suppress certain feelings inside and turn them into something positive. There’s a counterpart to every feeling in the brain and nervous system. When you do this training of the brain and nervous system, the energy of the being reflects more. The brain can then reflect that more. There have been several studies into this subject. I mean, isn’t this actually the basis of yoga? Yoga changes the energy flow in the body through certain moves. It brings the brain and body under control and alters the existing programming. There have also been other studies into how such software changes, such as the changes in the belief system of a person, reflects on the genetics.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
So, you’re saying the software changes the hardware?

Resat Guner:
Exactly, because everything we have is connected to the software. Is there anything in the human mind that is not affected by thoughts and feelings? Every thought and every feeling activates different mechanisms and hormones in accordance with its nature. There are no emotions or thoughts that do not create a physical or chemical reaction in our bodies. It’s how we feel stuff, through this activation. In your body, there’s a real physical change that makes you feel. It’s measurable too. This is of course not entirely up to you. I mean, you don’t feel a certain emotion because your heart beats in a certain way. It’s the other way around: Your heart beats in that way because you feel the emotion. This is a system where things feed off each other. We keep saying let’s be positive, but that’s easier said than done. Now, we all know that certain practices at certain levels are necessary. Once you practice these and transform them (we previously talked about how regression and similar practices are suitable for these transitions), your heart beats in a different way. This then sends different signals to the brain. The signals from the heart to the brain are much more numerous than those going the other way, so when the heart sends different signals to the brain, the brain begins to work differently. The hormonal balance of the body then changes, the chemistry of the blood adapts, and the electrical flow in the body varies. When these changes occur, you begin to feel different and therefore act differently. Bruce Lipton’s recent research into how changes at the software levels affect our genetics is crucial here.

Ernest L. Rossi, a student of Milton Erickson, has carried out research on hypnosis and its genetic expression. It really is possible to make changes to the software and affect the DNA, the hardware. Of course, it’s very important for this to be measurable, because as you know, there are so many people saying things like, “Come on! Let’s change our DNA!” Some people even sell music that they claim will change your DNA. I don’t want to be judgmental, but it’s not something you can quantify, so it doesn’t sound credible to me. There are certain things that can be measured, however: When a person practices certain methods or goes through certain therapeutic processes, we can measure physiological changes in the body. There are doctors who work with imagination to cure cancer. That’s why the body and the mind are intertwined. The key here is the software of the mind. It’s of course crucial to look after the body, and there are many things you need to do for your body, such as exercise, eat healthily, sleep, and so on. But who decides how to accomplish these? Which part of us? This mind executes everything in life! Everything focuses on this key.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
Could we think of the mind like the Windows operating system?

Resat Guner:
We can definitely think of it as an operating system, because our identity consists of software. There is software at different levels, just like on a personal computer. There’s the operating system that defines our faith, our values, and our identity. On top of this, we have applications like Word and Excel. And then there is content. Word is just a program, but you can use it to write whatever you want. I mean, the nature of the content is not important.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
So, Word works on the Windows operating system. While you were talking about the changes through regression and other therapy, I thought of something else. Word has many bugs, which in certain circumstances can crash the computer. The developer therefore constantly releases patches to correct this. It all sounds much like the situation with Windows and bugs. When you first install Windows, it all works great. You then download an update one day and the computer starts periodically crashing. In order to fix it, you need to patch the software again, and developers produce patches constantly.

What I understand from all the topics we’ve talked about is this: All therapeutic work is aimed at patching our broken versions of Windows, making our minds work properly again.

Resat Guner:
The mind is organized hierarchically. People who work in the field of NLP (Nero Linguistic Programming) have produced some very nice models. A very important model was made by Robert Dilts. A theory of Gregory Bateson, a genius in this field, is called Logical Levels. (Bateson has contributed many important theories about how the human mind works and cybernetics.) Robert Dilts developed another theory based on this, and it goes like this. There’s a hierarchical system in our mind, and there are different levels to our mind. Whenever a problem arises at some level, you need to intervene one level higher to correct it. There’s a famous quote from Einstein: “No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.” You always have to go one level up, so there are certain programs that do certain things in our brain, and we call these talents. These are programs at a simpler level, such as playing an instrument or writing. Programs lie behind our cognitive abilities.

This subject has a wide scope, so I will not go into detail about the mechanism of these programs. Basically, there’s a higher level that makes our abilities work, and that is our beliefs and our values. If a person’s beliefs and values do not allow it, that person cannot learn or do anything. If you don’t believe a certain thing can happen, there’s no way of doing it. It’s already been determined. That’s why if there’s a problem with talents, such as not being able to make changes in life, then the level of beliefs and values needs to be looked at.

So, what lies beneath beliefs and values? When we look underneath, there are entirely different sources, because we carry some beliefs and values from previous lives to this one. These are subliminal, so we are unaware of them. We also bring with us the beliefs and values of different identities. Of course, we carry around the beliefs and values of our culture, parents, and societies as well. These are all subliminal. Some of these are accumulations we bring with our own being, but most are things we learned when we did not have a choice. In the first 11 years of life, a person does not have the choice of learning or not learning something. Whatever happens around them, they learn. This is especially true in the first three years, when the process is much faster and irresistible. A large portion of your character forms between the ages of three and seven and to a lesser degree between the ages of seven and eleven. You cannot face down the subliminal, so it’s not possible to beat it or overcome it. The subliminal always conquers the conscious.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
It’s like the source code for a program. Not everyone can edit the source code. It’s a comparison again where Windows is a program, but there’s another huge program behind it that we can’t see. The source code is carefully locked away, and only the programmers can modify it. By the way, here’s another example of how software drives hardware: Computer software often develops so much that the existing hardware (e.g., the hard disc, CPU, RAM, etc.) cannot run it anymore. At this point, the software says that 2 GB of memory is not enough any longer. It now needs 4, 8, and maybe even 16 GB of memory to work properly. This is how software pushes the need for better hardware. Likewise, the software in our mind is saying, “These cells, this DNA, cannot carry me any longer. This body needs an upgrade.”

Resat Guner:
That is exactly what’s happening today. With the help of computers, everything is so fast today. Mass mailing that maybe used to take two months now only takes 10 minutes with email. For instance, when you worked with companies abroad, you used to have to send a letter or telegram. But then came the telephone and subsequently the fax. Now, things that used to take weeks can be accomplished in moments with computers and the Internet.
The human mind and body cannot handle the speed any longer. We all know the life we live, and the system cannot take it anymore. This is why many people have problems these days, and this has unfortunately led to a huge increase in the use of psychiatric medication and substance abuse.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
Are we having problems because the brain cannot catch up with the developments in the mind? Or is it our bodies? Maybe we perhaps resist it as well…

Resat Guner:
I think so. For example, the bodies and minds of people in the business world can’t handle the speed. This is why many go bankrupt. They’re trying to adapt, but it’s difficult to keep up. This is why people in tough working environments need extra coping mechanisms. They can achieve more if they practice certain methods that prevent the hardware (i.e., the body) from crashing. Extra effort is needed of course, but it’s essential.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
One day, a friend of mine declared, “We’re actually in a computer game, but we don’t know on whose computer!” We mentioned The Matrix earlier, so we really are in a sort of computer game as part of a computer program.

Resat Guner:
It’s very hard to prove otherwise. Since The Matrix came out, many books have been published on the subject. One such book was published in 2003 in Turkey when William Irwin’s Matrix and Philosophy was translated. In this book, a philosophy teacher asks his students an exam question: “Which pill would you pick, and why?” The movie affected people’s lives that much. I’m not saying it definitely is like this, but it’s also impossible to prove that it isn’t. We already are living in a world we created, because everything that reaches our brains is merely electrical signals. The brain takes them, interprets them, and creates a reality from them. We live in this reality we created. We are already in an illusion of our own creation, and we know that everything consists of vibrations. If we could shrink small enough to enter atoms, consider how weird the world we live in would be…

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
We are looking at an object in our hands. Let’s get to the atomic level of it…

Resat Guner:
There’s something I say at conferences: Can we imagine having a sense other than those we have right now? We know that bats find their way by sonar, and some creatures can see infrared and ultraviolet light outside our visible spectrum, but it’s all kind of similar to our senses. Overall, other living beings have more or less the same senses as we do, just to different degrees. It’s not possible for us to imagine other senses, because the system is all about the ones we have and what we can imagine…
So, we already know that reality is an illusion. We know that a large portion of an atom is empty space, and it’s electromagnetic fields that make things seem solid. All this has been discussed, but among it, we create a second layer of illusion where we assign meanings in our minds…

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
Dialect illustrations? (The illusion of thinking merely with notions)

Resat Guner:
Exactly. Our own self consists entirely of illusion, because these are our beliefs, values, opinions, and other things we’ve learned. We have an identity and a character as products of these, and we call it the self. Until we become aware of this, it will continue. However, we can’t solve it even once we are aware of it. We still continue to exist and live in it. We have emotions, and certain things have certain meanings. There are do’s and don’ts and other limits. We have to live among them, but we can slowly go beyond them, step by step. This keeps going in life.

There aren’t that many people who practice separating themselves from the body, the senses, the emotions, and the mind. Some practice meditation, but others get lost in daily life. Even if we do practice them and move forward, we will still be here in this life. After all, we need to act upon our senses and the automatism of our minds. When we look at the world, we see many people live by the hypnosis of life as a level of awareness. We consider hypnosis a special process. When we mention hypnosis, what comes to mind? Is it putting someone to sleep and making them do all sorts of silly stuff? The sleepwalker situation represents the deepest trance. I mean, someone under hypnosis might open their eyes and look around, but they live in an induced reality. Very few people can achieve it anyway, but hypnosis is not like that. Hypnosis for us is like water is to fish. There’s hypnosis everywhere  there are words and communication. One-to-one communication in itself is a form of hypnosis, because when people hear words in their native language, they have no choice but to understand those words. There is no option to ignore these words or erase them from your mind. You hear what’ was said, and this turns into imagination in your mind, triggering the emotions and reactions you’ve learned so far. For example, if someone insults you, it triggers bad feelings inside you, right?

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
f I shouted, “John” right now, anyone close by would think of the closest John in their lives. They would immediately have an image of this John in their heads.

Resat Guner:
Yes, of course. Hypnosis exists everywhere there are words. We talk to ourselves, and so we hypnotize ourselves constantly. We are in a trance, but it’s not a special condition. Everybody asks us, “Are you going to hypnotize me?” People think of hypnosis as losing one’s self, but we regularly do it during the lives we lead. We move from one trance to another. We stick with certain thoughts, beliefs, and opinions. We maintain certain emotions inside. We don’t see things that exist and imagine things that don’t exist. What is this if not hypnosis? There are millions of things inside us that we’ve learned so far, but at one point, we could forget it all and continue like they never existed. People might even say “I don’t do anything!” or “I’m nothing!” Is this not a hypnotic suggestion at the moment it is said? In life, a trance is a continuous condition. Actually, regression and other practices try to solve several problems with this trance and get people out of it. They are already in a certain trance if they’re having problems. They hypnotized themselves by saying, “I cannot do this. I can’t go there. I can’t act like that. I must only act like this.”
With deep hypnosis, we can actually even change the personality of a person. There’s a phenomenon called Deep Trance Identification. In a deep trance, you can turn a person into someone else according to their talents. For instance, I gave a speech at a seminar on being creative. (I hope we can do it again.) I wanted to show how creative people can take on different consciousnesses. We had a young friend who could paint, and when I asked him whom he wanted to identify with, he said Miro. We then identified him with Joan Miro Ferra. He was in a deep trance, and he remained in this deep trance even after opening his eyes. We told him, “You’re Miro. Open your eyes and paint.” We gave him crayons and paper, and after 20 minutes, he had created a drawing in such a Miro style. When he returned to his former consciousness, he said, “I could never paint like this. I paint what I see, yes, but I can’t paint this…”  It was such a symbolic and beautiful painting.

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
They uploaded programs in The Matrix. It’s like you literally uploaded the Miro program to him, from the consciousness of the universe. This is what happens in family sequencing: you’re him, you’re her, and so on. They tell you that you’re your father, and a man who has never known his father begins to act like his father.

Resat Guner:
Exactly. Deep Trance Identification happens right there and immediately. For example, that painter friend probably did not paint like that ever again, but it shows how creative you can be with another consciousness, because it’s possible to do different things. He’d been freed from his limits. He said it himself, “I could never have painted such a painting, and in such a short period of time. I wouldn’t try anyway.”

Hasan Sonsuz Celiktas:
So, you previously said, “We try to get people out of the trance.” Why are you trying to get them out? What happens when you succeed? Is it a lengthy procedure? Three questions came to my mind while you were talking, and I realize these are the most basic questions of life: 1) Why are we in this vision? I mean, why are we here? 2) If we characterize it visually, where am I? 3) What happens when we wake up from the illusion? All of these deserve a lengthy discussion, however, so let’s leave them for another time. Thank you so much for sharing everything.

Resat Guner:
Thank you.