Sonsuz:
Let’s begin our conversation by asking the meaning of a concept everyone talks about, yet a genuine answer escapes us when we ask what spirituality means. What does spirituality mean to you, Cem?
Cem:
First of all, let’s have a look at the literal meaning of this word. As you may know, spirituality is derived from the word “spirit.” If we investigate the Latin or Greek root of this word, we will see a deeper meaning (breath/life/spirit); however, let’s call it “the science of spirit” for the best known meaning. Further, we can say that spirituality is what we do for the evolution and understanding of the human spirit. Of course, this is the basic meaning of the word, but if you ask me, if this is what everyone understands from spirituality, then, the course of our conversation may change.
Sonsuz:
Good point. Everyone is talking about spirituality; everyone deals with a different part of it, so it cannot be expressed clearly. Do you think everyone should understand the same thing from spirituality? Can everyone have an individual understanding of this subject?
Cem:
These are crucial questions, so thank you for asking them. I am sure you asked them on purpose. The problem actually is a belief that “Yes! Everyone must understand the same thing from spirituality!” In fact, everyone understands different aspects which is the reason why people confuse “the truth” and “the reality.” Spirituality mentions the reality, but if we perceive it as a basic science of spirit, then it mentions the truth.
There can be numerous realities; however, there is only one truth. Consequently, since spirituality mentions the spirit and the spirit is truth, then we should talk about a single spirituality where everyone understands the same thing when we say spirituality. However, people who teach and receive training on spirituality do not perceive it in the level of truth.
Why do we keep away from new age trends? Because we see that the truth is confused with reality and distortion. Recently, one of my best friends attended a meeting of scientists who were working on the Biosphere in Canada. They witnessed lots of interesting experiences. After these experiences the moderator said something which I fully admired, “Don’t contaminate the information.” He meant don’t distort information and chose the word “contaminate” which means to get infected by microbes. He used this word to imply that people should not distort information coming from the universe with their minds, experiences, judgments and fears. The word he chose was fascinating—contamination; I was so impressed. Yes, if something is contaminated, its residue may be transferred from one person to the other which results in an epidemic. This epidemic makes people ill and distorts their perceptions. Spirituality, when parted from the truth, does the same—distorts.
Sonsuz:
So how can we differentiate “the truth” and “the reality”?
Cem:
We need to refer to Sufism: “The Devil is your sheikh, if you do not have a sheikh.” You know, I have an immortal master, and he has his own masters. Masters have masters, as you see. So, why do these masters exist? The answer: They are the guardians of information and truth. Thank God, they exist. Thanks to them, the information can be transferred to future generations without distortion. This is very crucial. Information coming from these masters is real spirituality and the truth which leads the spirit towards evolution. If we want to differentiate truth and reality, we should find a real master.
Sonsuz:
And this is the hardest part, isn’t it? You were lucky to know lots of precious masters due to your connections with China. Unfortunately, there are many people who desire to have a real master but cannot find a one. Yes, Sufism says “Devil is your sheikh, if you do not have a sheikh,” but we are surrounded by devils dressed like sheikhs. What should we do? How shall we find the masters of truth? Who shall we trust?
Cem:
First of all, we should refer to the second proposition of spirituality: It is the master who finds his apprentice. According to a Chinese belief, if you are kind to a person for 100 years, then in your next life, you will be on the same path; if you are kind to a person for 1,000 years, you will share your pillow with him. More is needed for a master to find you. To find the master of truth or to be found by him, you need good karma which must be developed for unlimited lifetimes.
If in this life you have such a calling in your heart, it means you have completed a long way in your path. For example, unintentionally, I tried to raise my students to a higher level than me. I did not know why I did so, but then I learned from my master that I was doing this to pay my karma. Can you imagine what it is like, Hasan [Sonsuz], to raise your student to a higher level than you? To help them achieve this? The one that pretends to be a master never does things like that; I knew that. Yes, apprentices who meet with fake masters will have things to lose, but the ones who pretend to be a master have much more to lose. If I could, I would like to cry for the ones who call them Masters; I would like to cry for their destiny.
Do you really want to meet an immortal [a master]? Here is the formula: Keep your heart pure, motivate people for spirituality, help them and knock on all doors where you can learn something. Strengthen bonds with your ancestors, solve problems with your family and earn money; you will need money on that path. When you do all that, you may have the chance to meet a master. Without these things, it is very difficult. If you really want to meet an immortal master, then clean your karma, make an effort to look for real knowledge, don’t live in a dream world or lose pureness of your heart. Perhaps, you can find an immortal then.
Recently, I met some people in an organization who call themselves master. My God, I really felt pity for them. They are living in a fantasy and also attracting others to this fantasy. I really felt sorry for them.
Sonsuz:
I have lots of things to add, but let’s first make something clear for our readers. You talk about the immortals. Who are they? What makes them so precious? What happens when a someone meets an immortal? And are these immortal beings in terms of their physical body?
Cem:
Yes, they are immortal people with immortal bodies; however, they do not stay in this world because they travel in other dimensions. I will tell you the system that my master told me to make this clear. I hope I neither transgress a rule nor offend my masters.
There are some basic ways for the evolution of the spirit. One of them is Lei Shan Dao which means the way of lightning. There are some important levels of Lei Shan Dao: the first level is to create yang energy in the body. The second level is to reach the full awareness of consciousness. If we die at that level, the conscious stays alive. The fourth level is a milestone. At that level, yin and yang energies in the body combine to create tai chi within the body. This is the first step of immortality. After this level, some supernatural abilities can be noticeably used, but the most important circumstance is that individual karma ends. I hope I can clearly tell you the next levels.
Sonsuz:
Did you skip level 3?
Cem:
No but this third level is not a milestone. I will mention the important levels only because there are lots of levels.
Sonsuz:
OK, let’s continue.
Cem:
If I am not wrong, the eighteenth level is the next milestone; at that level the spirit can leave the body and travel in the universe and other dimensions. And if I am not wrong again, Kundalini energy can rise through the spine at that level. There are lots of Kundalini meditations nowadays, you know. Do you think these meditations really work and do you think these are real Kundalini exercises? As you see, to stimulate Kundalini you must be immortal already. As far as I remember, at the fortieth level, death disappears. Until this level you can live a long life, but when you reach this level, you do not die physically. And if I am not wrong again, at the forty-eighth level or fifty-second, you reach real enlightenment. The seventy-second level is the last stop in this dimension. There, you become one with God, you integrate. Again, as far as I learned from my masters, in the next two dimensions, there are 72 more levels. This is why the masters are such precious people.
Sonsuz:
Can you tell us about your studies and what you teach to your students?
Cem:
What I teach now are only preparation exercises. You must be immortal to do more. If my students pass these preparation levels, they may have a chance to work with an immortal. Of course, they may do so only if God and their own karma gives permission. The basic exercises are simple. There are three basic exercises—harmonization of the body, mind and energy.
The first step is to harmonize the body. After reaching a fit form, we move to the second step. In the exercises for harmonizing the mind, we set up a platform for the spirit to land. So, the spirit enters the body and integrates with it. After this level, the basic energy storage for the body is created and energy gets stored here. Then the hermetic exercises to create the “pearl” begin, which I mentioned in my book. All these exercises make you closer to immortality. Of course, before all these exercises, you must purify your heart and improve your relationships. You need to study with a pure heart, a sharp willpower and conscience.
This path is so beautiful that it can easily take your breath away, so you need to work properly. I mean, I do not cleanse people’s chakras in a weekend seminar. I do not channel anyone’s alpha or theta frequencies; I do not even believe in such things. These have nothing to do with the truth. I only present my students with the basic information received from my masters and if I can contribute to their spiritual development. Of course, we also obtain some initiations. Believe me; these are not even similar to the said initiations. Our initiations are mostly traumatic experiences. I cannot give initiations because I am not yet authorized. Only the immortals can do it. Thank God, this path is not closed. I hope the people, who have a calling in their heart for spirituality, stop losing time with such unnecessary methods and begin to take real steps for their spiritual development.
Sonsuz:
I want to know your thoughts about actual spiritual workshops. Personally, my name for it is “the discovery of spirituality by capitalism.” This is a matter of the supply and demand rule; some people demand pills and others supply them. Is there anyone looking for real enlightenment? This is open to question.
Cem:
Yes, this is one of the consumption units and makes the situation evident. There are many people who make lots of money out of this. There are two extremes here: On one side there are those who pay a fortune for useless but well-packaged workshops, and on the other side, there are those who think such spiritual studies should be free.
I suppose these new age masters and gurus are divided into two groups. The first group is really malicious and market enlightenment, health, etc., to gain power and to make money from it. The gurus and the masters of the second group believe that the things they do really work; they live in a delusion. They contaminate the information and spread it through their students.
Both groups are dangerous. Sometimes the second group may be more dangerous than the other because they seem basically fine. Unfortunately, 99 percent of the masters who claim they study spirituality belong to these two groups. I am not sure if they are really looking for enlightenment because they have no idea about it. Can you believe that some of them think that being a vegetarian or holding their anger is enough for spiritual development?
A path can only be strong if the previous masters of this path transferred the power and information without any distortion and contamination.
Sonsuz:
Can someone draw their own path by reading, thinking, making judgments and blending information? Should he be a follower of a discipline? Is it a must?
Cem:
Yes, it is a must. Of course, reading, learning and blending different information is very crucial because it prepares us for the path. All this information, all our sincere efforts and purification of our hearts, prepare us for the path. They even help our spiritual development, but the more we target, the more we need to follow a certain path. I am aware all new age teachings may express the opposite. They say we have all the things we need, and we are already immortal; however, if you want to progress, we must choose a path and work with a master. Of course, some exceptions exist for it. I know such people but these people are somewhat different. They possess a power which I find hard to define. Strange! You know, Buddha reached enlightenment on his own path, but until reaching it, he had lots of teachers.
A master is one who has surpassed the path you are on, so he can guide you on your path. Walking without a guide on that path is not impossible, but unfortunately, it is very difficult and dangerous. Spirituality should not be underestimated.
Sonsuz:
Personally, I have learned lots of things from many people. Yet, the ones whom I thought were “masters” behaved so strangely that I lost all my trust in them. In fact, those were the ones more developed than the ones who pretended to be masters, but they were so weird that I gave up looking for a master. I began to follow my own intuition.
Cem:
It is really a rare thing to meet with real masters. Until you meet this master, you will be grateful to your other teachers and masters. To be honest, I experienced the same things. I had too many would-be masters. I also had very good teachers. I left many of them. I progressed more than most of them. I respect some of them; although, I am more advanced now. İlhan Güngören and Eric Yudelove are two examples. I am grateful to them; I will love and respect them always.
Fortunately, meeting a real master is a totally different thing, and so is being on the true path. It is where confusion ends. It is the point where you continue to develop and know the direction of your path. It is the point where you entrust your life to your master and will sacrifice yourself for your master.
I hope everyone will get this chance in this life. I also hope this will be a call for our readers.
