We interviewed A. Cemal Gürsoy, chairman of the Metapsychic Studies and Scientific Research Society (MTIAD) and the Bilyay Foundation, about the activities of these foundations and the book The Divine Order and the Universe.
This book, which was compiled in 1959, was finally published on April 2, 2013. It is now available in English for readers around the world.
Dilek Yılmaz (DY):
Welcome, Mr. Gürsoy, you’ve been the chairman of MTIAD for seven years. How did you first get involved with it? Would you tell us a little about yourself?
Cemal Gürsoy (CG):
I first came to MTIAD during my college years. It was the end of 1981, and the foundation had just moved to its current address, where there was still some construction going on. I’ve been there ever since and witnessed many phenomena that belong to the metaphysical. In time, I began to see reflections of how the system of the Spiritual Ruling Mechanism works. In some of these reflections, I saw the merits of people, while in others, I saw the hopelessness of people, but I always saw how the Above was getting the job done with perfect infallibility. This established a solid faith in me. The rule has not changed since then. A duty is being fulfilled here, and according to this duty, people in time hand over the things left to be done to the next generation. It has always been like this. In accordance with the system of Above, an opportunity for representation and service is given to people here. After completing this, people go on the path of life with the knowledge and experience they gained here. This is the briefest explanation I can give.
DY: What is the general purpose of MTIAD, which was founded in Turkey by Bedri Ruhselman in 1950?
CG: The main purpose of MTIAD, which was also the primary goal during the first years of the society, is to function as a sophisticated institution in Turkey that spreads our information by linking with other spiritual centers abroad and conducting presentations with them at various congresses in order to introduce and outline Neo-Spiritualism to the world. At the time of MTIAD’s creation, there were no other spiritual centers in Turkey. The society’s founders were a distinguished group that included scientists, doctors, lawyers, and academics. These were all educated and reasonable people. There is also the research that Prof. Ayhan Songar and his colleagues carried out. They looked for answers to questions like “How is a spiritual communiqué sent down?” and “What needs to be done while a spiritual communiqué is being sent down?”
Could you please give us more details about Neo-Spiritualism?
CG: In a metaphysical sense, the knowledge, books and opinions of the Western school mostly dominated in the 1950s. Between 1875 and the early years of this century, there has been a tendency toward spiritualist work. There has been a spiritualist trend to which some well-known writers and scholars—such as Gustav Geley, Alan Kardec and Leon Dennis—belonged. Dr. Ruhselman added Experimental Spiritualism to this. When I say Experimental Spiritualism, I mean reproducible studies in the field. Dr. Ruhselman had his own way of receiving spiritual communiqués. Back in the day, it was called “Psychic dissociation.” Psychic dissociation is a method that closely resembles the methods used today by most psychotherapists. It enables the medium without the need for a complete and deep trance. No other practitioner made experimental studies like these in this field. The methods used in the west involved a complete trance and deep hypnosis, so the person’s will completely disappears and the operator has complete control. In contrast, the psychic dissociation method used by Dr. Ruhselman was like two men conversing without blocking the consciousness of the medium in relation to the plan he belonged to. Likewise, the spiritual communiqués received through the Pioneer Plan have been received the same way. All the knowledge was then double checked against the Plan itself. Edgar Cayce, who was called the Sleeping Prophet, also did psychic readings, but he did them while sleeping. He was effectively going into a deep trance. Dr. Ruhselman had started to communicate with embodied beings by 1936. There is so much valuable knowledge in his sessions and books.
DY: Could you please tell us more about Bedri Ruhselman, M.D., the forerunner of neo-spiritualism in Turkey, the founder of MTIAD, and the compiler of The Divine Order and The Universe?
CG: There are significant resources about Dr. Ruhselman, and we have them in our archives. He introduced experimental spiritualism to Turkey and made it world known. He was a perfectionist. Previous generations of members and those who worked with him always talked about him as a very thorough man in regard to his time. He was a man who thoroughly immersed himself in his work, never left things to chance, always researched all the prior work, and had a very serious outlook. In his free time, however, according to our members from previous generations, he was quite easygoing, joyful, humorous, sober, and modest.
Our current members are the third and fourth generations after Bedri Ruhselman, so none of us ever met him. However, as we can gather from his books and articles, he was a functionary. He had all the signs of living a life of duty. In the foundation, there is a lot of respect felt for him. Moreover, when we consider The Divine Order and The Universe for its content and scope, we can see how he conveyed knowledge that was beyond all the existing sources. As he received these spiritual communiqués, instead of repeating them verbatim, he made a mutual agreement with the Above, making sure all things were in accordance with his own research. He did this by directly asking, “Is this exactly as I understand it?” or “Was this correctly transmitted. Did I understand it correctly?” This was a systematic plan of work. Although he was also a powerful medium, he worked like this. In the book, there are no personal opinions from him. Instead, he was responsible for compiling the knowledge he received. It is clear that reaching a great duty plan like the Pioneer Plan is not easy for a layman. The Divine Order and The Universe is one of the greatest collections of spiritual communiqués from the higher planes.
The knowledge received from the Sublime Plan of Duty, known as the Pioneer Plan, was compiled by Bedri Ruhselman in 1959 and stored in the safes of notaries and banks. When its time came, it was published 54 years later on April 2, 2013. Could you tell us the story of its publication?
CG: After Bedri Ruhselman compiled and arranged the book in 1959, he made three copies of it. These three manuscripts were all given to the notary after being properly sealed. The book was trusted to three people. Most people in Turkey’s spiritual circles knew who these people were. The main instruction was that if two of the book’s trustees die, then the book should be opened. But the book, in fact, was entrusted to the medium who received it first. Indeed, he was the one who opened it.
DY: The person who opened the book could have gone anywhere to have it published. Why did he choose your society?
CG: There were surely some signs of the event. While Bedri Ruhselman was still alive, the book was entrusted to these three people with a notary contract. Besides, Dr. Ruhselman also left instructions to these people with lots of clauses, and they followed these instructions. Finally, after the death of Metin Sakik, the process started to quicken. Two signs were activated at the same time. Later on, it was transcribed, edited, and passed on to the publishing process until April 2, 2013, when it ultimately materialized and manifested. It had already disseminated its influences, but this time, it disseminated them in a way that is accessible to many more people.
DY: What was its initial influence on the general public? Everyone had eagerly awaited its publication for a long time. We hosted about 400 people here in our center on April 2, 2013, and the interest in the book was fantastic. What kind of feedback did you get after publication?
CG: At least two generations have waited for the book since 1950. There have even been various urban legends about it. Everybody knew it had been dictated through a very sophisticated mechanism, but the most surprising thing was its title. People had previously called it The Book of Knowledge, and it was expected to use this title. Its title as The Divine Order and The Universe was surprising to many people on April 2. Many people also found it hard to read because of its intensive language. However, some people read it quickly and were deeply impressed. They commemorated Dr. Ruhselman with great respect. Additionally, we received a lot of praise for the quality of the publication.
The book was dictated by the Plan of Sublime Duty, which we call “Pioneer.” Some readers, who do not know the concept of a “Plan,” may think it was written by a spirit with this name. To help their understanding, could you please clarify this concept?
We live now in a three-dimensional realm. The beings who complete their duty here continue to live without a body in the fourth dimension. There is also a hierarchy among them. You can see this concept of a plan in ancient Greece, in Plato. Philosophers like Aristotle said much about life after death. A Plan is an organization made up of beings that live as consciousness, as a spiritual energy. This occurs after the body and senses are no more, after death when the real life that requires further endeavor begins. These beings come together to serve people by conveying their knowledge from a common pool. It resembles our earthly organizations but not entirely. The Pioneer Plan is a duty plan from a very high level.
DY: In the first section of the book, we encounter concepts like amorphous matter, hydrogen atoms, the universe, matter-spirit, the structure of the universe, original principle, and the Unitary. The early sections are slightly harder to understand, and they should be carefully and repeatedly read to understand them. Personally, I grasp a different meaning and a different point of view each time. I think you should not give up early because you feel you don’t understand it. For the readers having difficulty understanding the “Unitary” concept, could you please clarify it a little?
CG: Yes, the book introduced a new world to us with the deep knowledge it contains. If you can’t understand the initial concepts, you will not be able to understand the knowledge and synthesis in the later sections. Each section in the book uses the nuances of the preceding synthesis.
As regards the Unitary, it is the point where the duality in the material dimensions ends. I don’t mean just the three-dimensioned universe—it also applies to the other dimensions. This duality continues on to the Unitary, which is a great plan of comprehension in which the principles from the Original Principle are managed. It is the unity in which great comprehensions unite. This is not the kind of pantheism we know. The Unitary works as a manager that rules over all the cosmoses, not just our galaxy. We used to call this the Spiritual Ruling Mechanism. Formerly, we limited it to this planet only, but the Unitary is a comprehension unit or plan that consists of uncountable competent spiritual beings. It prevails over all manifested universes and no duality exists there, just one voice, one comprehension, and one force.
DY: Yes, it’s certainly difficult to understand, but some kind of awareness could be gained from it.
CG: Yes, we need to understand it imaginatively through our hearts. If we try to consider it in a logical, analytical way, we have difficulty understanding it. The Unitary relates to us through its laws. Because there are many secondary influences between us, which we can call filters, the Unitary is not something you can approach quickly and easily. It is not just a level higher than the Spatium, where people go after death. We also need to revise the spiritual point of view we have developed to this day. This book shows us that the great mentors and guides are not so far from us.
DY: I read this on page 163: “However, the sublime beings on duty, who always receive their directives from the divine plan, have observed humanity’s present longing and higher needs. This book is a gift to the world from the part of the plan of duty that is engaged for the world. It contains the knowledge for people who thirst in their need to continue to seek and expect their evolution.” This is such a clear and powerful expression. What do you think?
CG: What kind of a gift could it be? This reinforcement of knowledge will expand the consciousness of people and advance their path of evolution. However, this gift also means a different stage of human comprehension. We can understand it only with our essential comprehension and knowledge. This is clearly a book with very strong influences, and among the revelations received so far, this book gives the highest value to man as a human being, is the simplest, and never drifts into personal narrative. The book contains concepts that are explained through examples from daily life rather than the parables and allegorical expressions used in many sacred books. It does not attempt to verify itself through such illustrations, so it is different from the others. It is not a book of religious law, but we could call it a graduation gift for finishing the last semester of the world school, which consists of very high influences.
DY: The English edition of this book was published at the end of March 2014. With the natural disasters today like climate change, drought, floods, and typhoons, as well as the increasing number of cancer patients, how do you think The Divine Order and The Universe will serve humanity?
I think now the English edition is published, some scientific societies will eventually become interested in it. In the book, there are details of the climate change and the natural events we experience today, and this was written 55 years ago. It says the magnetic poles will shift, and we are in the midst of these kinds of changes. There is also some knowledge in the book that supports CERN’s research findings. It has been sent to various international centers and institutions. We look forward to making it known worldwide, because now is the time for all of us to absorb and share this new knowledge.
DY: The book was published in English so it could reach the whole world. It’s now listed on Amazon.com and many other online book retailers, so anyone can purchase a copy. Please share with us how the English edition was prepared.
CG: The preparation of the English edition started right after the publication of the first Turkish edition, and it took almost one year. We needed to work very carefully and attentively, both in the translation and proofreading phases. In fact, the book was written in a concise and simple style considering its content. However, the Turkish phraseology needed to be accurately translated to English. Of course, we had doubts in our minds about how people would perceive and interpret the English edition, but in practical terms, the book was translated into English as faithfully as possible. It was translated by one of our friends with experience in translating other books and spiritual communiques. We tried to be very thorough by having the translated text checked over by foreign editors. The wording, grammar, and even the punctuation was processed abroad. Everyone can now buy it from Amazon.com. It’s available in e-book format as well. You can find more information on the book’s website: www.divineorderanduniverse.org.
Is the book going to be translated to other languages?
CG: Of course…We have already started translating it into Spanish. Later on, it may be translated into German, French and Russian. We plan to do other translations depending on developments. Because Japanese and Chinese are symbolic languages, it might be difficult to capture the exact meaning in the translation, but seeing as English is such a commonly spoken language all over the world, we believe that many Asian people will also understand the English edition of the book.
DY: Some 54 years passed from 1959, when the book was first compiled, to its first print on April 2, 2013. People may wonder why it was kept hidden for 54 years. For example, why wasn’t the book opened in 1990 rather than 2013? Who determined the appropriate time to open the book?
CG: As I indicated earlier, Bedri Ruhselman left specific instructions. The last trustee, or rather custodian, fulfilled these instructions. When only one person remained from the three entrusted with the book, he was supposed to wait for the sign. Then, as per the instructions, it was to be published through the Metapsychic Studies and Scientific Research Society. If you want to know why we waited all these years, it is the will of the Above. Look at people’s current realities. The sociological, psychological, philosophical, and religious perceptions of reality were not sufficient to comprehend the value of this knowledge in 1959. The understanding of reality through the 60s, 70s and 80s also did not match today’s understanding, so humanity needed to reach this certain level of understanding. Our insights have inevitably evolved over time. Monotonously reading and absorbing knowledge is one thing, but bringing it to an understanding and then living it is completely different.
When we look at the spiritual communiques before 1950, there is no definite information on the soul, God, evolvement, living creatures, and the influence of other planets on Earth and each other. There is no symbolic or allegorical expression in this book. In particular, the subject of the Creator has been treated very carefully because of the respect felt for its name, and the wording has been chosen appropriately. Adequate information is given where it is necessary, but the Creator is not mentioned inappropriately, and no unnecessary attributions have been made to it. If this book had been published in the 1960s or 1970s, the degeneration and dispersement effect, the entropy effect in other words, would have reflected to these texts. People could have misinterpreted according to their understanding of reality at that time, and they may have assumed attitudes that change and distort the meaning of the text. Through history, this has happened to the sacred texts received through revelation.
DY: The English edition of the book has been sent to major institutions and organizations, such as NASA, CERN, the United Nations, and the World Health Organization. It has been sent to rectors, deans and other faculty members around the world in universities such as Yale, Harvard, and Oxford. It has been sent to the two UN’s largest organizations: the World Meteorological Organization and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which was established by the UN Environmental Program to evaluate the risks of global climate change. In addition to these, it has been sent to many institutions and centers around the world that research psychology, comparative religions, the history of religion, metaphysics, parapsychology, and consciousness. It has also been sent to some leading international media channels. Although it might be difficult to predict, do you have any expectations about people’s reactions when they come across The Divine Order and the Universe for the first time, a high-level spiritual communique?
CG: Firstly, I state that this book’s energy is very high. People might react during the process of assimilating its energy. When observing people who read the Turkish version, I noticed that some of them gave up reading the book early on, while others, because their level of understanding did not resonate, paused at certain parts of the book before giving up reading it. On the other hand, those who were really ready for it experienced new expansions in their minds through the book’s knowledge, and they periodically read it over and over, highlighting sentences each time.
It is very important to read this book when you are calm and comfortable. If you read this book in a silent place, your understanding will not only expand intellectually but intuitively and imaginatively. The same is true for the people we sent the book to. There will be people who find the book interesting and read it all, but others will not read it. However, because the events pointed out in the book (which was compiled in 1959) start to manifest over time, the scientific community, the media, academia, and religious authorities will gradually realize that this book cannot be so easily ignored. At least, those who ignored it before may feel the need to read it in the near future. Knowledge of the times we are now living, the course of events in the world, and the end of our planet was given in 1959. This knowledge will certainly reach those who are ready for it more quickly, but as it is with the esoteric tradition, all divine knowledge is felt more by the circles that are nearest to the center.
Nevertheless, the end of the cycle in which we currently live has the characteristic that everybody prepares and constitutes his own thesis. What’s more, because the family of humanity has attained a certain level of consciousness, the chances of this knowledge being understood is much higher now than it was in the past. That is why I think many people will understand it. The majority of people, who cannot understand the advance of humanity and who now experience a void in relation to meaning, will associate the knowledge in this book with themselves. This means the book has already started to fulfill its function.
DY: Let’s now talk about global warming, drought, and the aridity problem we will soon face. In İstanbul, we had a mild winter this year that almost felt like spring. It rained very little and we had 19°C days, even in mid-February. The drought problem is very serious now, and it seems that climate change has accelerated this year. In other words, it’s like it’s changed gear. All the climatologists are warning about global overwarming and natural disasters over the next 30 years. It seems we are coming closer to the final temperatures of the last days of the world, which are mentioned in The Divine Order and The Universe. What do you say about this?
CG: The knowledge of climate change and global warming was given in 1959, when such developments were not yet even a subject of discussion. Let’s return to your question of “What would have happened if the book was opened earlier?” If this were the case, because climate changes—such as the droughts, the seasons merging into each other, natural disasters like massive floods, and freak hurricanes we currently experience—would not have been as evident in the past years, so people could have dismissed it and ignored the related knowledge in the book. The book’s topics may have been perceived by people as pure fantasy, and this could have diminished the effect of the book. The book’s release in 2013 coincides with the current increasing effects of the pole shift, the changes in the Earth’s magnetic field, the melting of glaciers, droughts, and global warming. So, some time is given to humanity, so we can live and digest this knowledge by pulling ourselves together and comprehending some truths before the end of the world school. In my opinion, the closure of the world scene does not indicate a very distant time.
In the book, there is some important information about a planet with an immense magnetic field that is currently approaching our solar system. It is 400 times larger than Earth and belongs to a very distant solar system. The book says that with the influence of this planet on our solar system, a gradual shift of the Earth’s axis and the melting of glaciers will take place because of the gradual displacement of the poles through a chain of value differentiation. The balance of the Earth will totally break down due to the movement of huge amounts of seawater from South to North. We are now living through a period in which these effects have already started. We closely follow NASA and other leading institutions related to astronomic studies and observations. What do you think about the essence of the time we live in?
CG: By the 80s and 90s, the effects of climate change had become increasingly obvious. When we take the strong influence from the magnetic field of that planet, which is 400 times larger than the Earth and gradually approaching our solar system, into consideration, this influence on Earth, as well as on our solar system, fully explains the reasons behind climate change and the gradual acceleration in the pole shift. The planets in the solar system are preparing themselves for the final realization of the closure of the world school, with every planet having a specific function of its own.
DY: In the book, there is also important information about the plan of love and the symbol of heaven. It mentions that the plan of love’s function has the quality of being an entrance point to the plan of duty. Would you please explain this in more detail?
CG: Clearly people will not go there and see a sign pointing them toward the plan of love. They will find themselves in the level of consciousness they acquired. The plan of love is an energetic space. I think people with the proper consciousness level will find themselves there after death. Also, in the book, it is said that a part of those who are ready will pass directly to the plan of duty, without even stopping at the plan of love. This means that those with high levels of consciousness will not have to stay in the plan of love for an adaptation period. The plan of love acts as a sort of waiting room for suitable beings, preparing them for the plan of duty. It’s also said the process of expanding the consciousness and illuminating comprehension will be very fast there. As the plan of love is not constrained by time, the process will not take very long periods, unlike the development system in the world. The education will accelerate from the moment when the connection with the body is severed.
You have been studying and lecturing on “Self-Knowledge” for quite some time in the foundation. Would you tell us about the benefits of these studies?
The subject of “Self-Knowledge” has been studied in the society since 1985 within some closed-member groups. The teachers of this school—Gurdjieff, Ouspensky and Maurice Nicoll—are doyens who are able to carry these doctrines to the psychological level. We opened this study to outside groups in 2002. We work and study with people who have prepared their magnetic fields and consciousness levels. This is laborious and demanding work. If you want to know why, it’s because no one willingly converts their lifestyle patterns into an internal psychological work and observes themselves. People do not, or cannot, choose this because they might need to make radical changes in their lives following this study. Most of us live in a systematic delusion of perception in our subjective worlds. Nevertheless, a younger generation is also entering this study and being fully ready. These friends come into this study all equipped and motivate us with their approaches and questions. The “Self-Knowledge” study has arisen from the need for a methodology to implement the cosmic laws and knowledge into daily life. When you read about the cosmic laws, it’s not easy to experience and transform it into self-knowledge on a personal level, so many keep them only on theoretical and intellectual levels. To transform them into self-knowledge, it should be lived through. So, we need to apply the self-knowledge work on ourselves. While doing this, if pain and suffering is involved, then we need to drink this bitter medicine. After all, a bitter medicine does not always taste bitter; it depends on you.
DY: Could you please share with us some practical suggestions that we can practice during daily life to remember ourselves?
CG: At this point, I want to emphasize that many people do not need Self-Knowledge for self-remembering and questioning the reason for existence on this world. The educational system of Self-Knowledge was limited to studies carried out within the inner circles of esoteric societies and groups until now. It was not open to people outside these circles. But now, in our group studies for larger audiences, we see people start to ask questions about these issues. It is important that everything done mechanically should also be done knowingly and consciously as being in the moment, in the “now.” As a simple exercise, I could suggest you start to like doing things that you currently don’t like doing.
DY: We are the big family of humanity, sailing in the same Earth ship. There is a sublime plan of duty behind the bestowment of The Divine Order and The Universe as a gift to humanity. There is also a carefully planned order behind climate change and our advance toward the end of a cycle. The world is no longer a convenient residence for people, and the book offers an opportunity for humanity to complete the necessary preparation for their conscience, faith, lack of knowledge, and experiences during the remaining period. The book explains this very well: “You, who can be you with matter, nothing with everything, and can adapt to the harmony of this everythıng, long for the moment when you will be of that harmony.” What is your intuition about this statement?
CG: In fact, although this sentence can be interpreted according to everyone’s own sense, I think it is given to people in order to herald the sense of unity by the beings in duty during this last cycle of the Earth. “Being a part of the harmony” means you will also be in the unity, performing your duty. It is a completely different experience to performing your duty as if you live like you are already up there while being on Earth, despite the many earthly stimuli that surround us. In fact, it means it’s possible to adapt to this harmony while still on Earth. It indicates that despite living in the world as an embodied being with all its limitations, you can still attain the feeling of unity that a plan of duty, assigned from the Unitary, has. Indeed, it seems that a chance, an opportunity, is offered to people to solve the issue in this dimension, rather than leaving it to the Above. This has great merit.
Thank you for this interview.
CG: Thank you.
(Note: You can buy Bedri Ruhselman’s “The Divine Order and The Universe” from Amazon.com by searching book title in store’s search engine or from the link below:
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